| October 25, 1998 MR. RUSSERT: But first, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu returned home late last evening. Before he left, he talked about the bitter controversy over the spy Jonathan Pollard, and I asked him about the impact of the peace agreement on Israel. (Begin videotaped segment.) PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, it gave up territory, which is very painful for us. It's part of our natioanl homeland, but it's a commitment that the previous government made and I keep. It gained, for the first time, a verifiable process of measuring and ensuring Palestinian compliance in fighting terrorism in word and in deed. MR. RUSSERT: Already back home there are former supporters of yours waving a letter that you wrote in 1996 when you ran, saying you would never relinquish territory. What do you say to them? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: That is not true. I never said that. In fact, before I ran, I made it clear that we would honor the Oslo accords providing the Palestinians kept their part. MR. RUSSERT: When this agreement is fully implemented, the Palestinians will control about 41 percent of hte West Bank. Does that make a Palestinian state inevitable? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: What is at stake now is the remaining territory which is so vital for Israel's defenses, and we have to strike a bargain, a deal that ensures the Palestinian desire to run their own lives, but ensure Israel's desire to protect its life I don't believe that a fully fledged sovereign entity that can bring an army unto the hills above Tel Aviv, that can make a military pact with Iraq or with Iran--that's what sovereign states can do--I don't believe that's the prescription for peace. You have to have limitations on certain sovereign powers, on the Palestinian entity. And this job of balancing Palestinian needs and Israeli needs, especially for security, can only be done through a negotiating process, which I'm committed to doing, and which we've essentially embarked on with the end of the Wye talks and the Wye agreement. MR. RUSSERT: In 1993, Yasser Arafat said, "The Palestinian flag will soon fly over Jerusalem." Will that ever happen? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: No. MR. RUSSERT: Never? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: It will never happen. Jerusalem's been the capital of the Jewish people for the last 3,000 years, from the days of King David, and only recently, only in the last 30 years, really, 31 years, since 1967, the Six-Day War, when the city was reunited under Israel, has it been hte haven and worshipping ground of all three religions without anyone being interrupted. It's only Israel and Israel alone in the history of Jerusalem that has allowed all three religions to worship there in an unfettered way. I'm committed to that, and that will always be our policy. We will never, ever divide that city or build--or re-build a Berlin Wall in the center of it. That will not happen. MR. RUSSERT: In 1994, you wrote the following question: "Can anyone seriously trust Arafat?" What's the answer? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, I fall back on a great American saying known in Washington. I think one of your presidents coined it. It's called "trust, but verify." So I'm verifying. MR. RUSSERT: Can he control his people, especially terrorist groups? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Absolutely. MR. RUSSERT: Hammas? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Yes, he can, but he has to make a decision to confrontthem, and that is essentially what is required if the peace is to go forward. Now, I can't say that he can control every single terrorist foray. That is not serious. But remember that he received territory from the previous government, he struck a deal. The deal in Oslo was he gets territory and he fights terrorism. The opposite happened. He got terrorism (sic) and we got a tenfold increase in terrorism emanating from the territories under Palestinian control. What I've been very firm on, very insistent on, is to say if he wants more territory from Israel--and under the agreement, I have to give him some, and I do--then you have to assure me that you will fight the terrorists in the territory that you already have, let alone the new ones that you'll get. MR. RUSSERT: One of the key members of your party, former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, says that you're more interested in holding on to political power than serving the needs of your nation. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, if I was, I certainly wouldn't do this agreement. This would be a terrible mistake to do it, because I put myself at considerable political risk, as you yourself know. I may very well--the government may or may not fall; I don't think it will. I think it will--I think cooler heads will prevail, and you need to use your head, not only your heart. You need both. But I think undoubtedly I took on, I was willing to take on a personal risk, personal political risk, and perhaps others, but I'm not willing to take on a security risk for my country. That I will not do. And that's what I've fought for. MR. RUSSERT: One of hte more controversial aspects of this discussion here in Washington was Jonathan Pollard, the spy who sold American secrets, and you asked that he be returned to Israel. Why did Jonathan Pollard spy on the United States? Why did Israel spy on its closest friend and ally? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: I don't know. I wasn't running the government at the time, and I pledged that this would never happen again. My predecessors already did that. But I came out--I came out clean. I said, "Look, he was working for us." That had never been admitted before. It was a terrible, terrible mistake to have done that, and he has paid a price. He's been there for 13 yeras. He did not compromise, to my knowledge, American security in the sense of giving us things that we would in any way compromise the United States. Our alliance with the United States is so deep, it's forged by such deep bonds of interest and values, that Israel--I think you will not find a greater ally, a better ally for the United States than Israel, and I can tell you the time that I've been in office that we have passed on to the United States all the information and the intelligence that is important to save American lives that we possess on more than one occasion. But in the case of Pollard, it was a mistake. He has served his time, he is practically in solitary confinement for 13 years, and I appealed to the president on purely humanitarian grounds to release him and let him come to Israel. MR. RUSSERT: Did the president give you any indication that he was going to do that? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, I think we discussed it. I don't want to--I didn't discuss it, by the way, at the very last moment, as some have said. I raised it some time ago. But I think the president told me there's a process here that he must go through and verify, and he cannot commit to, at this point, what the results will be once he undergoes that process. MR. RUSSERT: But there's a sense the president gave you some indication that he'd be fairly disposed and the word leaked out that Jonathan Pollard was being released. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: I'm not going to get into this disucssion. I think it's--there's no point for me to delve into this isuse. I do hope that the sense of mercy will prevail, because I don't think Pollard is endangering the United States. I believe that he's served his time, and I think that, you know, I've been asked to make sacrifices for peace, which I did, and also release Palestinian prisoners, hundreds of them, and I would hope that a way would be found--not necessarily around this juncture, but not too far away-- where-- MR. RUSSERT: Months? Years? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: I cannot say that, but I hope as soon as possible. MR. RUSSERT: Former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said that he, in fact, jeopardized Americans all across hte world, that hte amount of secrets he gave away would fill this entire room, and that he should have been shot or hanged. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, I don't know that kind of information that reached Israel, and he certainly wasn't doing it, just what I know of when he dealt with us, he wasn't doing it in any way to hurt the United States, but in a mistaken effort to help Israel. He certainly didn't want to injure the United States, which is what differentiates him, for example, from spies who spied directly for the Soviet Union and knew that everything that they were passing was going to be detrimental to the security and safety of the United States and its people. This is not what he did with us. But, again, I don't want to in any way reduce or minimize the gravity of what he did. I do want to say that I hope that a way will be found to, under humanitarian grounds-- MR. RUSSERT: Why are you so interested in getting him to Israel? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: We have a--we have a certain value, which I think is shared by the United States, as well, because I saw with admiration the way you strove over many years to find every MIA, to get the people who served or worked on behalf or fought on behalf of the United States or even spied on behalf of the United States, to get them--to get them home. And this is a very big value for Israel. It's one that is grounded in thousands of years of our history, in numerous battlefields and in numerous other situations. MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that one day Jonathan Pollard will be in Israel? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: I'm doing my damnedest that htat will happen. I hope and I like to believe that it will happen. MR. RUSSERT: This is a very serious time for you, as you know. In fact, "The Jersualem Report," a magazine in Israel, has said that htis agreement, quote, "could very well" put your life at risk. Are you prepared for that? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, there are people who are prepared for that, so I assume we've already encountered that calamity, and I don't think that any of us are oblivious to it, but I would hope that this is something that I don't have to think about, and I can tell you that I generally don't think about it. I think of hte political consequences and I work at them. Or at least now I'll have to work at them. I didn't have time to really deal with them in the last 10 days. I even had the great fortune of not reading a single bit of press which, by the way, is not bad. MR. RUSSERT: (Laughs.) Just watch TV. You're much better off. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: No, I didn't watch TV. I absolutely did no reading and no watching of TV. MR. RUSSERT: But as you know, these issues are so divisive in Israel, there are people who will take to teh gun if they believe it will further their cause. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, I think I've got a notice on my head, so to speak, from the leader of the Hammas, so we already know that there is an organized effort on that score, so I don't look around my shoulder, personally. I really don't. I don't do that. MR. RUSSERT: President Clinton-- PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: If you do, by the way--the minute you begin to think in those terms, you're paralyzed, and you cannot do anything, and you're put in a position of responsibility and leadership to lead, and to lead means that you cannot--you have to look forward. You can't look all the time behind your back, especially concerning personal fear. At that point, governments, nations become immobilized and they cannot function. MR. RUSSERT: As you know, President Clinton has had his difficulties back home here. Do you believe that his participation in this summit will portray him as a strong and effective leader? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: WEll, he was very helpful, very helpful, in the Wye talks and was important. I mean, I think he perceived and he acted what the role of the United States should be, which is to facilitate. And he definitely did that, and he did that, I think, with talent and with perseverance--considerable talent and, may I say, considerable perseverance. It was true that it is up to the leaders themselves of the two parties to make the decisions in the end, and no one can substitute for them, but it sure helps to have a friendly hand, and the president definitely gave it. And I don't want to delve into your internal politics. I have enough of mine-- MR. RUSSERT: It's okay. Come on, just jump right in. PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: Well, I'll let you--I'll let you deal with your politics and I'll deal with mine. MR. RUSSERT: But you'd prefer that President Clinton be around next year to help you continue this peace agreement? PRIME MIN. NETANYAHU: I am absolutely confident that the friendship that we enjoy withthe United States, under President Clinton, under past presidents, Republicans and Democrats alike, is a mainstay of the function between our two countrys, and I am just not going to enter into your political foray. You have your Sunday program--(laughter)--you don't need me for that. |
The Case Agianst Israel's Enemies by Alan Dershowitz 
Coming from England and particularly from the BBC, MUST BE SEEN VIDEO! ANOTHER MUST SEE VIDEO |